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And I have been proud to fulfill them and honored to invite them. Chairman Leahy. As my last question, in some of the testimony this morning there has actually been a pointer that, of course, simply with all the hundreds of billions, trillions of dollars prepared to invest, you must simply go somewhere else.


Stenger. I would tell you that in this climate the capability to raise capital for the points we are doing would have-- it is difficult to do so in a manner that would enable us as properly and as quickly produce the things we have done. You can borrow money if you have actually obtained 50 percent down.


I might have obtained half of that if I had the $12 million in cash to install. Every person knows that, yes, financial institutions have money to financing as long as you have obtained half of it in your pocket before you request for the other fifty percent. That is not how organization functions these days.

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Senator Grassley. Senator Grassley. I desire to admit that we only have unscientific details, yet I would certainly like to ask you to what level you have to go or do go to make certain that the centers make sure that the investments do not produce tasks for people below unlawfully.


Mr. Stenger. We have worked with-- as I stated, at the Optimal we had 550 building and construction employees on our project.


They are made up of 10, 15, 20, 30 staff members. They are from our regional areas. They are Vermonters. They are profiting straight from the investment. We are a hands-on facility. I recognize the workers, I recognize their households, and we have had the ability to use-- through these last 3 years of awful financial chaos, we have been able to utilize virtually every construction employee in our area and the surrounding regions.

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citizens. They live in the area. Their households exist. They are spent in the neighborhoods, and they are all U.S. employees. Senator Grassley. You do not need to utilize e-verify, however I want to know whether you do. Mr. Stenger. We do. Senator Grassley. You do.


Thank you. Mr. North, along the same lines of the question I asked him, has your research revealed instances other-- and I only gave one instance, so I wish to confess that and be accountable regarding it-- of centers working with undocumented individuals? Mr. North. That kind of data is very hard to obtain from USCIS, and I have to claim that what we do find out about a number of the inner features of that firm as far as this program is worried associates with instances in which the team has actually claimed no to an application of some kind and after that the local center or the specific entrepreneur has actually mosted likely to the Administrative Appeals Workplace-- which belongs to the company-- and there we obtain records, we get a hearing officer informing us what is going on in that certain situation.




This is a bad application." There is a quantity of poor applications out there, yet only as soon as that process gets before an administrative regulation court do we see much in the means of information. Now, there was one situation that you pointed out, and let me simply elaborate on that particular a little.

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Mr - EB5 Regional Center Program. North. The dairy ranch had actually declared 17 employees, and they got into it, and the judge discovered that 16 of them were illegals.


Okay. I am going to ask different inquiries of each of the three of you, yet it deals with this problem. As I claimed in my opening statement, I am concerned about the potential loophole that allows financiers to withdraw their financial investment in regional facilities after getting their permit.


Divine, are you aware of any kind of circumstances in which an investor took out the investment and walked away quickly after getting a permit? And if you are, or if you assume it is a problem, do you assume that it is a technicality website that should be shut? Mr. Divine. I would state that a lot of the investors, if you asked what are their objectives, they would say, "I intend to get a permit, and I desire to keep it.


Mr. Divine. Let me ask Mr. Stenger, is it typical for a capitalist in your experience to withdraw his or her investment immediately after getting an environment-friendly card? Mr.


Senator, legislator.